Jewish vs. zionist

topic posted Tue, May 30, 2006 - 4:55 PM by  Unsubscribed
I'm finding that jews that know I'm not a zionist seem to label me as a self hating jew. Anyone else having this experience?
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  • Re: Jewish vs. zionist

    Mon, March 5, 2007 - 1:41 PM
    There are three legs to the Jewish stool, God, Torah and Israel, I do not know your association with the other two legs of this reality. But today we have people who have no affinity to any of those things and still want to call themselves Jews, I'm not sure why they want to, and usually because of their beliefs, their children don't consider themselves Jewish, seldom does the cultural Jew last more than one generation.

    I guess as you let go of an intimate relationship with God, that leads you to let go of a relationship with Torah, which then leads you to let go of a relationship with Israel, and once let go of all those things, I'm not sure what you mean by being Jewish ? but hey if you wanna call yourself Jewish go ahead, but why not add being a Muslim and zen Buddhist to the list, you will be much more interesting party conversation.
    :)
    • i keep meaning to respond to this

      Tue, March 20, 2007 - 6:15 AM
      and i think it's important to be said in this forum especially. many people consider themselves jewish in many ways and it is not yours to denigrate their reality. if someone identifies strongly with their heritage, but not their religion they are still able to pass their traditions and heritage to their children (should they choose to have any). (and what of the childless jew, is s/he also not a jew??)

      i am a jew. i am an atheist. i study torah. i practice the ways of my ancestors. i am NOT A ZIONIST. nothing on that list takes away the truth of my jewishness, reduces my love for torah, or makes my spirituality less than yours. i believe that divinity is contained within. i believe ha-shem to be 'the small, still voice' inside my soul. rather than looking outward, i look in. that doesn't make me less of a jew. we are taught in our tradition to question, question, question. and in doing so, i would hope, we would come up with some different answers. answers that fit our lives and allow us to be 'good jews'.

      what i mean by being jewish (to answer your sarcastic question to the person you chased off) is that i love my heritage. i love studying torah. i love being a 'god-wrestler'. and in my beliefs that means i wrestle with the good and bad contained in all mankind, but primarily within myself. i take responsibility. i aim for the good everyday. i will never stop questioning. myself. those around me. my government and others.
      • Re: i keep meaning to respond to this

        Sun, April 1, 2007 - 8:04 PM
        "am a jew. i am an atheist. i study torah. i practice the ways of my ancestors. i am NOT A ZIONIST. nothing on that list takes away the truth of my jewishness, reduces my love for torah, or makes my spirituality less than yours."


        The truth is higher then any religion.
      • Re: i keep meaning to respond to this

        Thu, May 3, 2007 - 6:19 PM
        I honor you brother I say if you want to call your self Jewish, even if you did not practice any forms or read Torah you still can call you self a Jew.,That is totally your freedom. There are many people that call them self’s Christian and do not believe Jesus as there savior, there are people who are cultural Muslims and do nothing with the religion of Islam... I truly meant no disrespect I was just stating what traditionally are the pillars and identify someone as a Jew, and it is very true that culture Jews seldom survive two generations. Why should these facts in any way slight those who decide to call them self’s Jews?

        there was no malice here
  • Re: zionist hybridization

    Mon, March 31, 2008 - 6:54 PM
    > I'm finding that jews that know I'm not a zionist seem to label me as a self hating jew. Anyone else having this experience?

    I understand why this is a difficult subject. There seem to be people who love making views about zionism and judaism and gett ing all fluffed up about it. The field is full of combative ideas, theories, and judgements.

    Judaism the most fertile faith on the planet didn't get that way by arguing, but by radically hybridizing with and isolating from other memes at different times.

    Zionism strikes me as a hybridization with those memes of Islam around submission to tribal imperative.

    From my place in the play of history zionism seems colorful and pleasantly emotionally charged with melodrama.

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